Curse

Algren Cole · Jun 09, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

I have several characters going through the game. The highest is in the desert now moving toward ascension with the lowest in Lion's Arch. The game is certainly still challenging enough without having to repeat areas over and over to attain one skill. Some of the bosses are probably in out-of-the-way areas, maybe two warps away from the nearest town. There are plenty of skills out there you will need to unlock by taking a class you may not normally take.

I don't know where you're at now in the game, but at level 13 the odds are you haven't even seen your first elite skill in use yet by a boss. I'm actually surprised at your judgement of their new system without having tried it yet. That is, unless you have.

I haven't yet....which is why I'm not saying that the patch will change the game play dynamics...though I do get a sense of accomplishment out of attaining a skill that takes effort and numerous attempts. and from what I've gathered elite skills used to require this. I was looking forward to attempting to achieve them...now all I have to do is slaughter the boss and select it,.

Twilight Doll · Jun 09, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

They're called elite because you can only have one in the skill bar, not because they were a pain to get.

To further embelish this statement, they are elite because there would be too much imbalance if these elite skills weren't restricted to 1 spot on your skill bar.

And to further comment on the SoC, I didn't feel a sense a accomplishment when I obtained elite skills the old way. Instead I felt like it was a pain in the arse, and when I finally did capture a skill, it was a relief so I can move onto doing something else.

Witt78 · Jun 09, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote refers to the Skill Capture Signet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aetherfukz

Best. Change. Ever.

Earlier, I heard somebody talking about a possible problem with this change.

Basicly he stated that killing some Bosses will trigger a Cinematic scene that will trigger the end of the mission.

Now. In my mind, that doesn't PROVE there is a problem. The patch also added more boss NPC's to a lot of zones. Perhaps you can get the elite skills on those NPC's...

But if the skill is on a boss that triggers the end of that mission....

Just my 2 Cents. Love the patch!

-Witt78

nechronius · Jun 09, 2005, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

And now that time and effort means nothing.

Like I said, sour grapes. Hundreds of hours that you deem "wasted" because now the same feat can be done a few dozen, and somehow you feel that the rest of us aren't worthy unless we go through the same agony you did.

Look on the bright side. The sacrifice you made clearly demonstrated that the old system was horribly broken enough to warrant a change. We lesser mortals who will not have to endure the same horrible fate thank your pioneering work. I'll buy you a pint if you're ever in my neck of the woods.

Unless you're not old enough. Then you might have to settle for something else.

Sekkira · Jun 09, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeljermon

They're called elite because you can only have one in the skill bar, not because they were a pain to get. They've been called that since the early betas, when they were bought from trainers just like normal skills. And if you hadn't captured a single elite, then you can't really make a judgement on the new system. The old system was fundamentally flawed in many ways. For example, capturing stances was just a matter of spamming the SoC again and again.

Thankyou for assuming I have no idea what I'm talking about. I mean, just from that post alone I think I can safely assume you think in absolutes. Me not capturing an elite = me having never tried. The SoC system not being frustrating = pathetically easy ( you may as well throw them in shops then ).

Enough with the personal attacking though. What I am complaining about is that the system went from one extreme to another. I *think* many of you would agree if it was made instead to be easy, keep it as the old system but make it more that if the boss has used the elite so far that you can capture it from then on in that instance, while it's still alive though. Perhaps even lengthening the time between skills, making them cast it more often and showing stances up would be another idea. Yet another one could possibly make the SoC a hex of some kind, whenever the boss casts the elite, while that hex is on it, you capture it.

That's three ideas I grabbed off the top of my head that could keep the difficulty of capturing from being so patheticlly easy and possibly get rid of the frustration involved in the old system. I had nothing against the old system and would be open to a change to make it less frustrating for others. But not at this cost.

I haven't got any elites, I have tried to obtain some (nothing incredibly nessecary for my build though) and have come to the realisation long ago that:

I DON'T NEED THOSE ELITES TO BE GOOD IN PVP IN FACT YOU CAN IGNORE THEM ALL TOGETHER IF YOU DON'T WANT TO WORK FOR THEM BECAUSE I'M SURE IF YOU'RE CRAP AT PVP IT WILL INCREASE YOUR SKILL TEN FOLD!

nechronius · Jun 09, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I haven't yet....which is why I'm not saying that the patch will change the game play dynamics...though I do get a sense of accomplishment out of attaining a skill that takes effort and numerous attempts. and from what I've gathered elite skills used to require this. I was looking forward to attempting to achieve them...now all I have to do is slaughter the boss and select it,.

You make it sound like you can just waltz right into an area and kill a boss and take his loot. He's still going to fight you for it.

You may still end up doing it numerous Times before you're successful anyway.

Just try it first and withold judgement until afterwards.

Algren Cole · Jun 09, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

You make it sound like you can just waltz right into an area and kill a boss and take his loot. He's still going to fight you for it.

You may still end up doing it numerous Times before you're successful anyway.

Just try it first and withold judgement until afterwards.

I'm not judging this specific patch. I bought this game for the PvE aspect....and from what I can see looking through the updates that have taken place thus far...ArenaNet is changing the gameplay dynamic to appease to the PvP players that just want all the elite weapons/skills/runes/vigors...and don't want to have to work for them. And unfortunately for me...that's not what I paid for.

When this game because Guild Wars:Counter Strike....even the PvPers won't like it....for at that point they'll start dealing with hackers.

Sekkira · Jun 09, 2005, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

Like I said, sour grapes. Hundreds of hours that you deem "wasted" because now the same feat can be done a few dozen, and somehow you feel that the rest of us aren't worthy unless we go through the same agony you did.

No I don't expect people to waste hundreds of hours because I don't deem them worthy enough. But I mean, the people who did spend a hundred hours to accomplish all that really worked for it and now you don't have to put any effort at all into it. Bosses are childs play to kill. Keeping them alive to steal a skill takes a bit more effort. A system which requires you to actually CAPTURE the skill instead of looting it (which the SoC should now be changed to SoL) making sure it's hard enough to put a decent effort in, but easy enough to make sure it's not entirely impossible or close to it to capture.

If the boss was getting attacked by other mobs, move the boss. If stances don't show up, make them show up. If they cast a spell too quickly after they cast their elite, change it to make them wait a decent amount of time to capture. As you all seem to be quoting, this is a game that rewards player skill, what is more rewarding then capturing an elite which requires skill (keep him alive) and not time played (not repeating it over and over because it's impossible to get the skill with that set of circumstances in that instance)?

Really, you may as well just throw an elite skill trader in town with this new system.

Sekkira · Jun 09, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

You make it sound like you can just waltz right into an area and kill a boss and take his loot. He's still going to fight you for it.

Oh but that's what the system is, you can just waltz in there and kill him then take his skills like loot. Of course he's going to fight you for it, but it's really not that hard to take him down. To me, bosses are just like regular mobs, just with a bit more armour/hp and they can heal themselves. Whoopdedoo.

Envy · Jun 09, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

I have 3 toons in the ring of fire and 1 finished with the missons. A w/mo, e/mo, mo/me, and a r/me. I have captured elites on all of them to include stances like Charge, Victory is Mine, Bulls Charge, Escape, Marksmens Wager, Energy Drain etc etc. I have alot of the elites unlocked and never had a huge problem with it. In fact a majority were done with the henchmen before the infuse upgrade. I don't think of myself as a elitest or a great gamer. I also didn't have a major problem capturing anything that wasn't of my own making.

Now I have gone out today to grab a few more elites. It's my opinion that it was easier to capture them before. Most the bosses I captured from I never killed. Take Energy Drain for example. I went in with one other player and six henchmen. Ran over to the boss and drained the crapola out of his energy while barely staying alive. He casted, I got, and I died. Wham, two people got it in less then 5 minutes from start to finish. If we had to kill him we would be screwed and doing what most of you have been doing. That being getting almost a full group to capture elites or trying to get them during a mission. Either way it's a bad idea.

Also note on the stances and instant casts that you could just tap the button again or move to stop the capture. If the boss hasn't seemed to cast anything in 5-6 seconds, chances are he used the skill and you can get it anytime before he starts his next skill. I just don't see where all the whine was coming from on elites. Even on my monk, most group were nice enough to save the boss till last or someone would take over healing while I captured.

viet · Jun 09, 2005, 07:36 PM // 19:36

if you're goin to ad Ale ton the game, u might as well make it so it helps u take damage better in a fight. adds interest to the game. i'm not condoning getting drunk in real life.

galrath. his infamy is so great that they increased the bounty on his head from 400xp to 4000xp! authorities were not aware before how dificult it was to get to him, hence the increase in xp. when galrath was 500xp, i basicaly went back to do it when i was higher level.

the more time u put into the game, your char, the better.

if they wanted to eliminate farming. they can have no monsters, or harder monsters the 2nd time the player went to that area, thus forcing the char to move to another area...

anet has to go with the majority i suppose. i was goin to switch to D&D online but they have a monthly fee. so i'm stuck with GWs for now.

i think u would make kids appreciate PvP more if they had to do more PvE. whats the fun in having a lvl 20 char handed to u in seconds?

& anet's response that not buying the expansion won't hinder your character? thats funny. i wont be gettin the xpansion if this game keeps gettin easier for 11 yr olds.
maybe they should make a section for 18+.

there is no grind. i find it fun to repeat missions. i always see somethin diferent each time. i thought i was kind of silly to do 5 infusion runs, so i jus did 3 then went to another area, or started a new character. then a few days later, i went back for another 2 infuse runs =) was fun as hell!

Saerden · Jun 09, 2005, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by viet

the more time u put into the game, your char, the better.

i think u would make kids appreciate PvP more if they had to do more PvE. whats the fun in having a lvl 20 char handed to u in seconds?

& anet's response that not buying the expansion won't hinder your character? thats funny. i wont be gettin the xpansion if this game keeps gettin easier for 11 yr olds.
maybe they should make a section for 18+.

http://pc.gamezone.com/news/03_09_04_11_19AM.htm

ibex333 · Jun 09, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

I do not think that the Signet of Capture Update was a good idea. It was easy enough to capture skills already. I never ever failed to capture a skill. Not even once. You can get offended, but I must honestly say that anyone who had trouble capturing skills has BAD REFLEXES. No I'm not saying this to put someone down, but you got to face facts. I used to like the idea of a CHALLANGE to capture skills. It was the difference between people like me who had the elite skills, and people who couldnt obtain them. Now, this challange is taken away, and if everyone starts going this route, then this game will become too easy. It's like giving 15k armor and storm bows to everyone just because they say it is too hard to get them.
Again, this is only my opinion, and I do not wish to offend anyone.

Lymix · Jun 09, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

I do not think that the Signet of Capture Update was a good idea. It was easy enough to capture skills already. I never ever failed to capture a skill. Not even once. You can get offended, but I must honestly say that anyone who had trouble capturing skills has BAD REFLEXES. No I'm not saying this to put someone down, but you got to face facts. I used to like the idea of a CHALLANGE to capture skills. It was the difference between people like me who had the elite skills, and people who couldnt obtain them. Now, this challange is taken away, and if everyone starts going this route, then this game will become too easy. It's like giving 15k armor and storm bows to everyone just because they say it is too hard to get them.
Again, this is only my opinion, and I do not wish to offend anyone.

Well if you really want to avoid offending people you could start off with not telling people who have had to work for their skill captures that they basically suck because they couldn't do it in one try

Sekkira · Jun 09, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

I do not think that the Signet of Capture Update was a good idea. It was easy enough to capture skills already. I never ever failed to capture a skill. Not even once. You can get offended, but I must honestly say that anyone who had trouble capturing skills has BAD REFLEXES. No I'm not saying this to put someone down, but you got to face facts. I used to like the idea of a CHALLANGE to capture skills. It was the difference between people like me who had the elite skills, and people who couldnt obtain them. Now, this challange is taken away, and if everyone starts going this route, then this game will become too easy. It's like giving 15k armor and storm bows to everyone just because they say it is too hard to get them.
Again, this is only my opinion, and I do not wish to offend anyone.

No, I agree with you entirely. Supposed to reward the player skill, with what? The old SoC system rewarded your skill and effort with an elite. Now you don't have to put any skill and effort to get the elite. The sigils I believe shouldn't be able to be traded but actually won in the HoH. The whole concept of earning a sigil, which was a reward for player skill to get a guild hall (the king or whatever of Kryta would offer you an island for your guild hall if you produced a sigil which proved you worth enough to actually have one) so then GvG would be between players of actual skill.

The people who say that introducing an influx of a bunch of people into the GvG will solve it being stagnant at the top. No it wont. You will have people not worthy enough to EARN a sigil being completely dominated by those who earned theirs.

My guild hasn't got one yet, but we have all in unision agreed that it must be earned and not bought.

ibex333 · Jun 09, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

Reduction of the grind is a POSITIVE thing. Not having to lather, rinse, repeat every boss to attain that elusive skill is a GOOD thing. Spend your hours elsewhere, like crafting a new, oddball but interesting character or perfecting your PvP game.

People who complain about the new capture system being too easy have probably already invested dozens, if not hundreds, of hours grinding to attain a handful of elite skills. Now you begrudge the rest who either don't have the Time or energy to spend doing the same thing over and over to attain the same thing you have. It's called sour grapes, so get over it. Or gather up your toys, get out of the playground, and go home.

Heh.. Sour grapes?? You dont have the time or energy to spend doing the same thing over and over to attein the same thing I have?? THEN DONT PLAY THE GAME. Go play UT or Battlefield instead.
Yes I did spend a lot of time and energy to have what I got. And it pisses me off to see people getting this stuff without a problem now. It was what made this game interesting in the 1st place. I'm glad I have the time to play this game now, but when I'll get a descent job, I'll simply quit playing GW. I surely won't whine that I dont have the time to acquite skills and items however.
Mark my words.. If this simplifying shit dont stop, this game will end up like Diablo 2, where a new 13 year old kid called me a NOOB every day just because he felt like insulting me.
I am so glad that I passed the whole game, and it's many great challanges - like a true devoted gamer, and made 170k from farming before this damned patch was applied.

codemonkey · Jun 09, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

Heh.. Sour grapes?? You dont have the time or energy to spend doing the same thing over and over to attein the same thing I have?? THEN DONT PLAY THE GAME. Go play UT or Battlefield instead.
Yes I did spend a lot of time and energy to have what I got. And it pisses me off to see people getting this stuff without a problem now. It was what made this game interesting in the 1st place. I'm glad I have the time to play this game now, but when I'll get a descent job, I'll simply quit playing GW. I surely won't whine that I dont have the time to acquite skills and items however.
Mark my words.. If this simplifying shit dont stop, this game will end up like Diablo 2, where a new 13 year old kid called me a NOOB every day just because he felt like insulting me.
I am so glad that I passed the whole game, and it's many great challanges - like a true devoted gamer, and made 170k from farming before this damned patch was applied.

And it makes me upset to see people spending tons of hours in a game to repeat the same thing over and over and over again. However you seem to have an issue with people doing things faster with less tedium because it would make your lack of a real job more meaningful... I do not see the correlation. If I can get an elite skill in 50% faster then I could w/o the patch how does this effect you personally? Does it insult you that I am able to sit down for 2 hours and make some positive progress in a game? Does it insult you that I didn't burn 40+ hours in front of my monitor just to get a few really nice skills? I guess, I'm confused....

I guess I'll never understand the concept of "I spent tons of wasted time on a game and you have what I have with less time spent." Seems like a childish concept. I play the game for fun, not to be so super cool that I can say I'm better then everyone else because I spent more hours online...

CodeMonkey

Phantom Force · Jun 09, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Now, perception of "unnecessary" differs. Some will claim it's necessary no matter what. But for the common definition, there will be changes coming.

To comment on your quoute about farming. I've said this on many posts time and time again. Not that what I think always matters, but people fail to see that farming, PvP, PvE story/replay, etc. all intertwines. If you take things away that let people kill time while waiting for new stories/events/skills/levels and so on then GW will lose valuable customers. The game isn't solely about PvP and people just wanting to PvP. People like to farm (few religiously, some casually on and off {me}, and others not so much. When you don't want to farm or have to farm you do things like PvP or replay another character. Maybe I'm just stupid in thinking it but yay for me. I have a feeling that if you nerf farming to make it harder by lowering drop rate, nerfing farm areas, or anything else you'll begin to lose people. Not everyone is stuck on just PvP to hold them over. Story line gets old after 1st or 2nd time through. So then what? You help friends for a bit, PvP, and? I for one would not PvP every night til the next patch. I don't think majority all just PvP 24/7 either. By taking away a cornerstone of any MMORPG or CORPG the rest will start to fall. I don't think any game will survive solely on PvE or just PvP.

codemonkey · Jun 09, 2005, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Force

To comment on your quoute about farming. I've said this on many posts time and time again. Not that what I think always matters, but people fail to see that farming, PvP, PvE story/replay, etc. all intertwines. If you take things away that let people kill time while waiting for new stories/events/skills/levels and so on then GW will lose valuable customers. The game isn't solely about PvP and people just wanting to PvP. People like to farm (few religiously, some casually on and off {me}, and others not so much. When you don't want to farm or have to farm you do things like PvP or replay another character. Maybe I'm just stupid in thinking it but yay for me. I have a feeling that if you nerf farming to make it harder by lowering drop rate, nerfing farm areas, or anything else you'll begin to lose people. Not everyone is stuck on just PvP to hold them over. Story line gets old after 1st or 2nd time through. So then what? You help friends for a bit, PvP, and? I for one would not PvP every night til the next patch. I don't think majority all just PvP 24/7 either. By taking away a cornerstone of any MMORPG or CORPG the rest will start to fall. I don't think any game will survive solely on PvE or just PvP.

I only do not agree with mining money if its done in an automated method (i.e. using bots, or cheats). If you want to run out and kill things over and over and over then that's fine with me because it doesn't effect my playing. If it doesn't hurt the game itself then roll with it. If what your doing is hurting others playtime then you should be shot

CodeMonkey